SIGGRAPH Conference?

 
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hughperkins



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 667

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:29 pm    Post subject: SIGGRAPH Conference? Reply with quote

Received the following email today:

"Dr. Perkins,

"Have you ever considered discussing your project at the annual
SIGGRAPH Conference, the most prestigious computer graphics conference
in the world? Now is the time, but time is running out. Deadline for
course proposals is 05 January 2005
(http://www.siggraph.org/s2005/main.php?f=cfp&p=courses)

"For SIGGRAPH 2005, the conference courses chair, John Fujii, has
initiated a new thrust to not only bring more aspects of opensource to
the conference but to also highlight opensource. This initiative is
referred to as Spotlight Courses
(http://www.siggraph.org/s2005/main.php?f=cfp&p=courses&s=open)

"It is important to realize that we are taking a wide view of
opensource. Courses need not be focused on straight development
issues. We believe that the opensource model has many aspects worth
discussing, teaching, and learning about. Everything from how to
manage an opensource project to how and why proprietary applications
could use opensource pieces in their development. Legal issues,
defacto standards, intellectual property, the economy of opensource are
all potential areas, along with all your opinions that we, as a
committee, may not have even considered yet. This isn't just a
technical initiative. We're reaching out to the art and animation
community and the rest of the SIGGRAPH and SIGGRAPH conference
community to consider teaching about what 'opensource' is and how it
can be utilized in all aspects of computer graphics and interactive
techniques.

"Possibly even more interesting, John and I would also like to throw
out an additional thought. John and I would like to see opensource
become more than just a topic presented in various forms at the
conference. One thought, spurred by your project, is a collaborative
world where members of the SIGGRAPH community could come to on
opensource issues and projects long after the conference itself has
come and gone. Could you see OSMP being used for such a
collaboration?

"For full details, check the 2005 courses Call for Participation at the
SIGGRAPH website,
http://www.siggraph.org/s2005/main.php?f=cfp&p=courses

"SIGGRAPH Course Program honors learning and exchange that begins with
you

"Scott Senften
SIGGRAPH 2005 Courses Committee"


Thoughts? Ideas?

Hugh
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hughperkins



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 667

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can see the coursenotes submitted for Siggraph here:

http://manageddreams.com/siggraph/osmpsiggraphcoursenotes.pdf

Hugh
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willkn



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Montana, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:35 pm    Post subject: Looks good Reply with quote

Hello, I have been following this project with interest for the past month and really look forward to becoming involved with it when I finish school in the next couple of months.

I read the SIGGRAPH course notes and liked the Open Source overview and presentation of OSMP. It isn't explicitly stated but I assume the founder of the project is Hugh Perkins. I really like the design choices that have been made for the project components. I have been using Lua in an open source project of my own and really like it. Am also planning on ditching Qt for wxWidgets. ODE also looks excellent.

Although I have no way of proving it, I suspect the open source model for multiverse applications will ultimately recapitulate what happened with HTML and the web in the 90's (although is a more complex way). The open nature of HTML and the web allowed it to grow in an extraordinary way compared with previous proprietary efforts to create hyperlinked networked applications (although there were other enabling factors as well).

Presumably, in the next decade, we shall see another even more exciting revolution in the emergence of numerous virtual worlds with varying degrees of independence and interconnectivity. OSMP is definitely headed in the right direction!

William Knight
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tetron



Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Boston, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read your slides. There's quite a bit of information there (but I
hope you're not going to use those as-is for your talk, there is *way*
too much text).

Would I be correct in thinking that the way the OSMP client works is
that it is actually composed of several independent applications, but
they each contact the server and authenticate as the same user? Then
things like talk messages are presumably broadcast to every connected
client (or at least those that have registered some interest in
getting such messages).

Also, it sounds like you use either 2 TCP connections (one for "high
priority" and one for "low priority" data) or 1 UDP / 1 TCP
connection. I suppose this is easy, but you're going to see a lot of
laaaaaaaaaaag when you try and use it over the internet...
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eggy
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 94
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tetron, is your sole purpose here to criticize and be negative?
Why not give it a shot yourself and see how well it works?
We tested it between Portugal and China. No lag.
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tetron



Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Boston, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, you're right. I'll try to be more constructive. But I'm not just spouting off to be an ignorant asshole. I've been working on VOS, which has similar golas, for something like four years now, so my critisism is based directly on my experence there. So I'm definately biased, but I'm also curious as to how OSMP has dealt with the issues I'm bringing up.

I did try the windows package running a local server and yes, I think OSMP is off to a good start. If someone can point me to a permanent server running somewhere, I'll happily try connecting to it and see what the performance is like for myself. Until then I'll shut up.
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reed



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The many-small-programs-working together idea is great, I love it. (It's also "The Unix Way" after all!)

It's sort of what we thought we would do with VOS but no application ever actually got built that way.

It's a good design for virtual environments, because there are so many aspects to the interaction and use, and many different jobs you can use VE's for.

The only problem that I've found is that most window/desktop environments/widget toolkits aren't really built for it, that is, it isn't easy for multiple programs to share a window frame, or for the user to link or compose window frames into more useful compositions, and you end up with windows all over the place.
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hughperkins



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 667

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

> The many-small-programs-working together idea is great, I love it. (It's also "The Unix Way" after all!)

Thanks Reed!

> The only problem that I've found is that most window/desktop environments/widget toolkits aren't really built for it, that is, it isn't easy for multiple programs to share a window frame, or for the user to link or compose window frames into more useful compositions, and you end up with windows all over the place.

Yes... that said there is a software available called GIMP which uses quite a few different windows, and it seems to work out ok. I know a few non-technical people, ie artists, who use GIMP, and like using it.

If we look at other similar applications to OSMP, such as Everquest or DAOC, they have quite a few intra-application windows available at all times, so it doesnt seem entirely inconsistent with multiple windowed processes. The only issue really is to handle minimization/maximization/closing, so that when you minimize the main window the other windows minimize too; ditto for closing the main window, which should shut all the other processes down.

Hugh
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reed



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some interesting things come up in your slides. Will you be able to give more specific examples from your experience with OSMP?

For example, Where have you seen the most contribution from non-founders? In the GUI? In the server? What has enabled you to use the work of other free projects (us too, we use a lot of free libraries)? I also was interested to notice you mention marketing, which is something truly rare to hear about in the free software world. What kind of marketing do you do and how?

I've been hoping to find a way to attend SIGGRAPH for a few years now, hopefully I'll have the chance at some point :)

Reed
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reed



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, the slides posted above are a bit confusing about the exact differences between Open Source software (viz. opensource.org), GNU-style Free software, and no-price free ("Free Beer"). This terminology is usually muddy and mixed up by people new to Free & Open Source software, who I guess will be your audience :)

Unless this kind of thing will be covered elsewhere at SIGGRAPH, in which case you could summarize it briefly, then talk specifically about the license strategy for OSMP and why you chose it.

Best

Reed
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